divoc-3
HACC@Divoc-DAY-3
20210404—20210405

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***


(start from chat)

Welcome to divoc Climate Neutral Industry Q&A!
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(BBB link)

### update: might have gone zombie (without Hano)
https://meeten.statt-drosseln.de/b/han-lmj-lwo-0on

Hallo Grüßt euch, ich hab da grad noch Rückkopplungsprobleme. Ich bin da aber sehr gespannt. Sag inwieweit ist den diese Wasserstoffding Zukunftsfähig vs greenwashing



### links

http://omegataupodcast.net/299-gravity-storage/

https://aresnorthamerica.com/




english?

hola! :-)

Question: Can we switch to English?

don't worry i can try to follow in DE

are there people who don't understand german?



Relive of Hannos hydrogen talk today

https://www.uestra.de/unternehmen/betrieb-technik/stadtbus/elektrobusse/bautagebuch-elektrobus/ Hybrid Dachschnelllader

"it's really worth watching hanno's talk from the morning!"
link ###

https://streaming.media.ccc.de/divoc_r2r/relive/24

https://www.basf.com/global/en/who-we-are/sustainability/we-drive-sustainable-solutions/circular-economy/mass-balance-approach/chemcycling.html

"orders of magnitude" changes need to happen



what could you do (for climate industry) at a nano-scale, yourself?

"upcycling"

https://preciousplastic.com/ :
    extruders
    mold machines
    (...)

OSE (open source ecology):
    they do inverters
    also agricultural machines

https://enerkem.com/




chemical recycling

experiments:
    mixed plastic waste

back to naphta → sources for new plastics
NAPHTA?
basically oil
oil → naphta

plastic molds



nano-industrial food processing (fish)




"easiest thing is to give away stuff people don't need"



(d) what would be hacker-scale industry
:
    * low capital entry
    * high-know how
    * maybe experimental
    * bonus: demonstration to push bigger industry to pick it up
    * [...]



(report: thin film solar cell production)

CIGS
"slightly toxic"




(factory scale assesment)

X capacity → production input in terms of consumed power
footprint

1GW
50MW (hungary plant)
    actually means "X Wh per year"!

production footprint : quite a bit below 1 year / production
(has reduced greatly in short time)
"even ~10 years ago it was 5 years"

### we should be able to quote these




(discussion: moves to the Quotable Database)

###  (we spoke about this before +nidi +d)


https://europeansolarinitiative.eu/




"where do we put all those solar cells"



    A) agricultural land roofs ?

germans now have ("EEG"?) law that farmers can at least go ahead and do it
... but it's always a question of subsidies

there's also vertical "bifacial" solar
https://www.en-former.com/en/the-future-of-solar-energy-has-two-sides/




    B) "somewhere in some remote desert"

will probably be "green ammonia"

https://asianrehub.com/
big solar 26GW installation
and export ammonia
prob solar & wind mix

### question:
    what is the scale expressed in ammonia?


(this would be an alternative
(ammonia production in germany)
BASF
wittenberg
"jara in somethingbuttel"



(how about using it in ... ) aluminum production?

yeah maybe
btw, it still has a high carbon footprint
(substantial but smaller than steel)



LOL) "solar fucking roadways"




"these calculations often miss some externalia"
CCS cement (?)



Q: what are some big interactive tools we know?

these databases are ... around but ... not "transparent", in the sense of ...:
    * not normalized
    * dug in some PDF
    * etc

https://www.wri.org/resources/charts-graphs/us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-flow-chart

https://totalism.org/farming

https://www.thru.de/thrude/
can get as sqlite !
---
#hxs
make example queries:
    ###






*** (talk not just about tech, but also about policy)


* make it more expensive to pollute ("carbon emission taxes")
190€/per tonne

related:
    https://media.ccc.de/v/chaotikum-co2-fussabdruck
    talk from (~Chaotikum)
    Lübeck hackerspace 
    "we need to go from 11ton PPPY CO2→1 ton:
        "by translating to time & money"
        so ~2.5kg per day

"a personal quota"

### ties to "fractionary visualization" #subfinance from CHT:
    https://dcht00.totalism.org/subfinance.jpg
    (this is for financial expenses, but emissions one is planned)



* what's the greenest political party in DE?
suppose it might be the greens
def not SPD

linke:
    wagenknecht is often considered climate-problematic
    "we should look into international shipping transport"


* making pressure on existing parties



* "things are already moving in the right direction!"
i see discussions are different compared to before



* "the incentives to change personal consumption aren't actually there"


* but still "showing what is possible"






*** D mentions SOCIALISM


https://e2h.totalism.org/e2h.php?_=classes

(and we talk about this for a long time)





*** MORE CHAT



(expressing time & more ###)

"""
ari10:28 PM
2021-03-23
dcht0010:28 PM
https://totalism.org/time
dcht0010:28 PM
https://e2h.totalism.org/e2h.php?_=time
dc
dcht0010:29 PM
20210404
dc
dcht0010:30 PM
8.8.8.8
192.168.0.1
ar
ari10:31 PM
2600::1
dc
dcht0010:32 PM
quad-punkt ftw
ar
ari10:32 PM
127.0.01
::1
dc
dcht0010:33 PM
https://totalism.org/workflow-basics
"""



[!→] centralized / polycentered / distributed / super-distributed

"""
polycentric / decentralized
...... distributed
... super-distributed .... also session initiation and discovery
(only in physical proximity)
polydistributed
"""


briar is mentioned
(in this context)


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