hso-20210608
hackerspaces.org regular
2021-06-08 meeting


Attendees
- cel, jomat, brimstone, waterppk1, bronsen, cos, webmind, crabbedhaloablut, ms7821, psy







*** (PRE)


freenode is dead

dcht00:
    i think there's reasonable consensus we're leaving freenode.
    let's sketch the options. writing it down does not mean you support a specific option.
    options don't neccessarily exclude themselves.

_____________________

general:
    * open channels on all networks, leave behind pointers
    * update https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/IRC
    * moving every now and then is good, it clears out the lurkers and gives the chance for a restart
    * we should consider archiving the old channel
    * ###

<---------------- general about post-freenode ↑


_____________________

A) move to libera:
    make sure matrix is bridged as good as it used to be

A2) move to another IRC server:
    ###

B) host on matrix primarily:
    (and bridge to IRC? is this a thing?)

C) self-host a matrix server on hackerspaces.org:
    we need more (dedicated) admins

D) ###


<---------------- post-freenode options ↑





*** RESOLUTIONS


IRC stuff


    * libera.chat group contacts

    * freenode is dead to us


Chat stuff


    * Matrix is official, irc is good as well; the main chatrooms are bridged


    * conversations in the channel (irc and matrix) should be considered not confidential nor private in any way







*** CHAT TRANSCRIPTS



#hackerspace@freenode
2021-06-08 14:37:51        cel        hello. is anyone here for this meeting? https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Meetings
2021-06-08 14:42:45        cel        agenda + notes: https://pad.pad.land/p/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 14:42:50        cel        https://pad.land/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 14:43:01        cel        discussion and decisions are taking place in #hackerspaces on libera.chat
2021-06-08 14:43:17        cel        we are expecting to change the channel pointer on the wiki page by the end of the meeting
2021-06-08 14:43:36        cel        there has been discussion of IRC and Matrix
2021-06-08 14:43:47        cel        ^ Hannis hramrach prosodyC 
2021-06-08 15:52:20        cel        wiki has been updated. notes are being prepared. https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings&oldid=89351
2021-06-08 16:10:11        cel     ending meeting

#hackerspaces@freenode
2021-06-08 13:11:28        +brimstone        meeting in about an hour from now?
2021-06-08 13:17:30        waterppk1        yep
2021-06-08 14:10:05        cel        https://pad.land/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 14:14:17        cel        some meeting-esque discussion is happening in the channel on libera.chat. talking about matrix.
2021-06-08 14:15:06        cel        i can share the ongoing log or updates if anyone here is expecting to be participating in the hackerspaces.org meeting
2021-06-08 14:18:45        cel        it is being discussed updating https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Meetings Freenode -> Libera.Chat
2021-06-08 14:19:39        cel        i propose to update it if no principled objections sustained at end of meeting
2021-06-08 15:41:56        +webmind        Shall we clean up in here then?
2021-06-08 15:43:54        --        Mode #hackerspaces [+o brimstone] by ChanServ
2021-06-08 15:44:22        --        ChanServ has changed topic for #hackerspaces from "Moin @ https://hackerspaces.org ⚒ Regular meetup on 8th of each month, 18:00 UTC http://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Meetings ⚒ Need Help? https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Help ⚒ spaceapi work in #spaceapi ⚒ Ask questions, lurk for answers (means, more than 60 seconds). ⚒ Need hacking help? https://youtu.be/KEkrWRHCDQU" to "Moved. See: https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Communication#IRC"
2021-06-08 15:44:33        --        Mode #hackerspaces [+z] by brimstone
2021-06-08 15:52:01        cel        sounds good. wiki page was updated
2021-06-08 16:08:10        jo|x1        brimstone: could you give me +o/+v so i can change room title on matrix side?
2021-06-08 16:08:43        @brimstone        jo|x1: you need +o or +v here to change the room title on matrix?
2021-06-08 16:08:45        --        Mode #hackerspaces [+v jo|x1] by brimstone
2021-06-08 16:08:49        @brimstone        how's that work?
2021-06-08 16:08:58        @brimstone        do the ACLs map in some strange way?
2021-06-08 16:09:09        +jo|x1        yes
2021-06-08 16:09:24        +jo|x1        mhh, a bit, but not as expected
2021-06-08 16:09:50        +jo|x1        matrix has power levels, default=0, mod=50, admin=100… what you did changed my PL from 0 to 1
2021-06-08 16:10:03        cel        ending meeting
2021-06-08 16:10:07        --        Mode #hackerspaces [+o jo|x1] by brimstone
2021-06-08 16:10:13        @brimstone        jo|x1: how about now?
2021-06-08 16:10:26        @jo|x1  now i'm 50 
2021-06-08 16:10:29        @jo|x1  thats enough 
2021-06-08 16:10:33        @brimstone      ok great 
2021-06-08 16:10:46        @jo|x1  i think currently its not possible to have more than 50 from irc 
2021-06-08 16:10:54        @brimstone      jo|x1: can you deop yourself when done? 
2021-06-08 16:11:40        @jo|x1  i changed it to: #hackerspaces (old, freenode) 
2021-06-08 16:12:34        @jo|x1  if that's ok i'd deop me… but i can't change powerlevels as moderator, even my own one, lmao 
2021-06-08 16:13:19        cel     ending logging. farewall, freenode 
2021-06-08 16:13:33        @brimstone      jo|x1: lol 
2021-06-08 16:14:07        cel     *farewell 

#hackerspaces@libera.chat
2021-06-08 13:11:21        brimstone        waterppk1: about an hour from now, yeah?
2021-06-08 13:17:08        waterppk1        yep
2021-06-08 13:17:23        waterppk1        I have to give someone a hand with the lathe but will be in and out
2021-06-08 13:39:58        cel        i would like to attend. not sure how much i will be able to participate though
2021-06-08 13:59:36        jomat        Where/How do we meet?
2021-06-08 14:00:19        cel        the wiki page https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Meetings says #hackerspace IRC channel on Freenode
2021-06-08 14:00:55        cel        however the Communications page https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Communication says Freenode is not recommended
2021-06-08 14:01:19        cel        and points to this channel we are in: ircs://irc.libera.chat/#hackerspaces
2021-06-08 14:02:28        cel        i have not participated before so am not familiar with the normal meeting procedures
2021-06-08 14:03:12        cos[m]        good time to move to matrix officially?
2021-06-08 14:05:06        cel        how does matrix compare with irc for meetings?
2021-06-08 14:05:31        jomat        Yeah, it's one point of the agenda how we deal with the freenode problem
2021-06-08 14:06:10        +bronsen        o/
2021-06-08 14:06:20        cel        is there an agenda listed?
2021-06-08 14:07:05        cel        found: https://pad.land/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 14:07:17        cos[m]        cel: well, it does everything irc does and much more.
2021-06-08 14:07:36        jomat        Matrix is just like IRC on steroids: It has profile pics, you can add reactions like thumbs-up to messages, you can have a hierarchical list of rooms, … such things.
2021-06-08 14:08:01        cos[m]        for example FOSDEM was organized over Matrix this year. This is quite detailed article on it https://matrix.org/blog/2021/02/15/how-we-hosted-fosdem-2021-on-matrix
2021-06-08 14:09:22        Lomanic[m]        I really miss quote replies/citations in IRC
2021-06-08 14:10:12        cos[m]        Finnish hackerspaces moved to Matrix few years ago, it has been very successful transition. Folks still using IRC, Telegram and Slack have been kept happy with bridges. 
2021-06-08 14:10:17        +bronsen        is there a friendly org that would be willing to host our matrix room(s)?
2021-06-08 14:11:03        jomat        matrix rooms are federated, they live on all the servers of the users participating in a room
2021-06-08 14:11:14        cel        libera.chat is bridged to matrix
2021-06-08 14:11:53        jomat        and i set up a server on hackspaces.org to play around
2021-06-08 14:12:35        cel        is hackerspaces.org registered as a project or community with libera.chat?
2021-06-08 14:12:38        +bronsen        at this point I am willing to give matrix preference over irc, since I assume there is a way to use matrix from irc (bitlbee? bridges?)
2021-06-08 14:13:04        cos[m]        Just pick a server from https://publiclist.anchel.nl/ and you're good to go.. Everything is globally federated.
2021-06-08 14:13:27        cel        opinion on using libera.chat?
2021-06-08 14:14:11        cos[m]        bronsen:  there is matrix-ircd.. but do you have a specific reason for staying on IRC?
2021-06-08 14:14:42        +bronsen        I think it is acceptable to keep #hackerspaces (irc)here on libera, perhapps #hackspaces as well (one could forward to the other) and have an official matrix room
2021-06-08 14:15:26        jomat        this could be our official matrix room bridged to libera
2021-06-08 14:15:26        +bronsen        cos[m]: I have reasons that go beyond "i am set in my ways"
2021-06-08 14:15:39        jomat        bronsen: from matrix this room looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/DMXFUWf.png
2021-06-08 14:16:52        cos[m]        𝚓𝚘: well, look depends on client. matrix is just a protocol, you can use weechat or any client you like for it. many oldschool irc users prefer weechat.
2021-06-08 14:17:04        cel        the view from IRC (weechat): https://room.sudoroom.org/2021/06/08/hackerspaces-irc-14-16-11.png
2021-06-08 14:17:11        jomat        i know :-)
2021-06-08 14:17:46        cos[m]        matrix ux is practically identical to irc if you use weechat.. for mirc fans there is still no substitute client :-)
2021-06-08 14:18:21        cel        opinions on updating https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Meetings Freenode -> Libera.Chat ?
2021-06-08 14:18:22        +bronsen        I have not been able to matrix from weechat without a bridge
2021-06-08 14:18:29        +bronsen        cel: do it :)
2021-06-08 14:18:55        cel        i've let the #hackerspaces channel on Freenode know. no response yet
2021-06-08 14:19:19        cel        i'll update if no principled objections sustained at end of meeting
2021-06-08 14:19:59        jomat        yes
2021-06-08 14:20:09        jomat        i think we can all agree not to use freenode anymore?
2021-06-08 14:20:20        +bronsen        cos[m]: jomat: do I understand you correctly that I wouldn't even have to change a thing if we made the matrix rooms official because it is bridged to this irc channel?
2021-06-08 14:20:27        cos[m]        but reality (at least in our hackerspace) is that nobody wants to start using IRC, even using matrix is barely acceptable for many. matrix is the only option if you count out closed source centralized alternatives.
2021-06-08 14:21:07        cos[m]        bronsen: yes, irc users don't need to do anything. this channel is already on matrix and anyone can join it easily.
2021-06-08 14:21:09        +bronsen        I cannot in good conscience recommend a closed source tool nor a walled garden
2021-06-08 14:21:26        cel        libera.chat has a web chat
2021-06-08 14:21:41        cel        Sudo Room had a new person join IRC recently via web chat in an iframe on the website
2021-06-08 14:22:44        cel        is there anything else from https://pad.land/hso-20210608 that needs to be taken care of?
2021-06-08 14:23:08        cos[m]        folks today expect you stay in the rooms you join even after closing the client and to have easy mobile clients available. it's impossible to try to sell irc to new users anymore for any serious purposes.
2021-06-08 14:23:39        cel        people could commit to be present in channel for "walk-ins"
2021-06-08 14:23:50        +bronsen        have facebook sell their personal information then
2021-06-08 14:25:01        cel        should we be taking notes in a pad? i am unable to update https://pad.land/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 14:25:03        +bronsen        cel: I (well my account) is basically online all the time
2021-06-08 14:25:33        cel        bronsen: good. what time zone are you in?
2021-06-08 14:25:38        +bronsen        cel: click on "Edit Site" at the very bottom of that pad page
2021-06-08 14:26:03        cel        got it, thanks bronsen 
2021-06-08 14:26:14        +bronsen        uhm I think it is UTC+2 atm
2021-06-08 14:26:32        +bronsen        "Europe/Berlin" is what I put in my django settings :)
2021-06-08 14:26:59        cel        cool. i'm in America/New_York (UTC-4 currently)
2021-06-08 14:27:24        cos[m]        don't get me wrong, i used IRC for 25 years and i love it, but it's not an option anymore. people want something like discord, telegram, slack etc and it's not possible to sell anything much primitive for them. matrix is clearly the future for foss communications.
2021-06-08 14:28:47        +bronsen        I am starting to get you wrong though: what are you arguing against?
2021-06-08 14:31:09        cel        this seems like a possible long-term conversation. for the meeting... i have a question about logs
2021-06-08 14:31:10        cos[m]        Hm, good point. Freenode->Libera.Chat. I think it should be Freenode->[Matrix / Libera.Chat]
2021-06-08 14:31:29        +bronsen        let's make it matrix
2021-06-08 14:31:52        +bronsen        make it matrix and mention the bridged irc channel
2021-06-08 14:32:08        cos[m]        Make it both, as the channel is both 
2021-06-08 14:32:45        cel        i would mention both
2021-06-08 14:33:13        jomat        Yes. Matrix first for the impatient, then IRC.
2021-06-08 14:33:31        +bronsen        the irc nutters will find a way :)
2021-06-08 14:33:38        jomat        yes :-)
2021-06-08 14:34:40        Lomanic[m]        I'm OK with an official matrix room and an alternative IRC bridged room 👍 or the other way around :P
2021-06-08 14:35:06        jomat        what would make the difference to the situation now?
2021-06-08 14:35:11        cos[m]        matrix is about interoperability, not replacing irc (or anything else). bridge the important rooms to both.
2021-06-08 14:35:14        waterppk1        yeah, I agree I've never used Matrix but with the number of people using Matrix to access this channel clearly it's gaining userbase by the day
2021-06-08 14:35:18        Lomanic[m]        It's like the current situation indeed
2021-06-08 14:36:05        jomat        ah, so that was your +1 to the current situation :-)
2021-06-08 14:36:40        cel        i just realized the wiki page referred to #hackerspace instead...
2021-06-08 14:36:57        cel        i'm contacting that channel
2021-06-08 14:37:18        Lomanic[m]        I'm OK with the current situation, doesn't look bad. We migrated to liberachat and gained a matrix room, that's cool
2021-06-08 14:37:48        +bronsen        as for the irc side: I would like for us to register this channel and its namespace and also #hackspace and its namespace
2021-06-08 14:38:21        +bronsen        we would need one registered libera user acting as group contact
2021-06-08 14:38:27        cel        +1 it can be more than one.
2021-06-08 14:38:37        jomat        yes, there are quite some variants: hackerspace, hackerspaces, hackspace, hackerspaces… i'd keep the hackerspaces variant as main channel as it was always known as #hackerspaces, and add notes to the topic/forwards or sth to the other ones
2021-06-08 14:39:05        +bronsen        registering the channel namespaces allows us to easily deal with not-so-aligned entities using #hackerspaces-os or somesuch
2021-06-08 14:39:27        jomat        bronsen: yes. can you do that or do you need another registered user?
2021-06-08 14:39:44        +bronsen        jomat: I am willing to do that, since I am already doing it for my hackerspaces
2021-06-08 14:39:55        +bronsen        eh only one hackerspace actually
2021-06-08 14:40:33        cel        +1 to bronsen and jomat as group contacts
2021-06-08 14:40:38        cel        i am willing to be a group contact also if that is useful
2021-06-08 14:40:40        +bronsen        if someone else is willing to be secondary group contact, that would help in case I am afk
2021-06-08 14:40:56        cel        i could be secondary
2021-06-08 14:41:31        jomat        i have jo and jomat registered on libera, those can be added
2021-06-08 14:41:50        jomat        currently don't know which one i'm prefering :-)
2021-06-08 14:42:35        +bronsen        jomat: are those the same account?
2021-06-08 14:42:49        jomat        no, different accounts, but both mine
2021-06-08 14:43:16        +bronsen        well we could add both and drop either one later
2021-06-08 14:43:19        @jo        jomat is currently on matrix, jo on irssi
2021-06-08 14:43:44        @jo        is there a limit how many contacts can be added?
2021-06-08 14:44:12        +bronsen        I think there is a practical limit, because staff will store this information somewhere
2021-06-08 14:44:30        cel        has anyone discussed it with staff yet? bronsen 
2021-06-08 14:44:42        +bronsen        I have rapport with staff from the old network :)
2021-06-08 14:44:45        cel        great
2021-06-08 14:44:49        cel        #hackerspace on freenode is registered by webmind
2021-06-08 14:45:07        cel        i let the idlers know we are discussing here and plan to update the channel pointer in the wiki
2021-06-08 14:46:10        +bronsen        group contacts would be the ones asking for cloaks (if we want those) and dealing with namespace conflicts; they also would be the first persons contacted by staff if needed (has never happened to me)
2021-06-08 14:46:54        +bronsen        therefore I'd keep it to three contacts
2021-06-08 14:47:11        cel        how does primary/secondary work, and hidden/public?
2021-06-08 14:47:22        jomat        ok, then for me i'd choose jomat
2021-06-08 14:47:39        +bronsen        they can be changed later without problems: from libera's point of view it is the responsibility of the project to decide
2021-06-08 14:48:03        jomat        ah... another thing: we don't have admin rights on matrix side here, only moderator
2021-06-08 14:48:32        +bronsen        cel: I assume staff would try primary first, and if there is no response/resolution within a certain time they would ask secondaries
2021-06-08 14:48:57        cel        ok
2021-06-08 14:50:05        +bronsen        does it make sense to have something like group contacts for matrix?
2021-06-08 14:51:22        cel        anyone know how that works?
2021-06-08 14:53:32        cel        seems to be unknown.
2021-06-08 14:53:41        +bronsen        something for later, then :)
2021-06-08 14:53:53        cel        would be okay to mention IRC first in the wiki page? e.g.: "every 8th of each month at 18.00 UTC on the #hackerspaces [[IRC]]/Matrix channel on Libera.Chat"
2021-06-08 14:53:54        +bronsen        shall we update the minutes so far?
2021-06-08 14:54:07        cel        good idea
2021-06-08 14:54:23        cel        to what extent are IRC logs of these meetings considered public or private?
2021-06-08 14:54:34        +bronsen        imho: public
2021-06-08 14:55:09        cel        could the chat transcript serve as minutes?
2021-06-08 14:55:11        +bronsen        with delicate information retracted if needed
2021-06-08 14:55:38        +bronsen        (accidental phonenumer or password for example)
2021-06-08 14:56:03        cel        yes. if for this meeting, should ask each participant if it is okay for their chat and nick to appear in log?
2021-06-08 14:56:53        jomat        as this is a public channel, i see all the information in it as public
2021-06-08 14:57:31        +bronsen        I don't think we need extra assent
2021-06-08 14:58:05        jomat        everyone participating here should be clear about that imho
2021-06-08 14:58:33        cel        ok. does anyone feel otherwise?
2021-06-08 14:58:42        +bronsen        I give my consent :)
2021-06-08 14:58:51        jomat        probably there are even some users connected without tls :-D
2021-06-08 14:59:14        +bronsen        or who log to an unsecured s3
2021-06-08 14:59:20        cel        sounds good. i will ping others just in case
2021-06-08 14:59:43        cel        jo cos[m] Lomanic[m] waterppk1 brimstone 
2021-06-08 14:59:56        @jo        B+1
2021-06-08 15:00:02        @jo        s/B//
2021-06-08 15:01:19        cos[m]        Sounds good. 
2021-06-08 15:01:44        cos[m]        I was trying to copypaste invite link to this channel, but it seems i'm not able to invite users. Is that on purpose?
2021-06-08 15:02:37        cos[m]        "Invite users" power level is set to Moderator, usually it's the default. 
2021-06-08 15:04:10        cel        updated https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings&oldid=89350
2021-06-08 15:05:26        brimstone        hihi
2021-06-08 15:06:29        cos[m]        cel: could you add a link to the matrix room to URL https://matrix.to/#/#chat:hackspaces.org
2021-06-08 15:07:08        cel        is that bridged to this channel?
2021-06-08 15:07:18        cos[m]        That is this channel
2021-06-08 15:07:28        cel        ok. is it preferable to libera.chat's matrix?
2021-06-08 15:07:55        cos[m]        what do you mean with libera.chat's matrix?
2021-06-08 15:08:10        @jo        cos[m]: no, that's not on purpose. we do not have admin here on matrix side yet and can't change those settings.
2021-06-08 15:09:26        cel        cos[m]: i mean #hackerspaces:libera.chat
2021-06-08 15:09:52        cos[m]        It points to this channel also. It's just an alias, like DNS name.
2021-06-08 15:10:56        cos[m]        Anyone with matrix client installed an opening that link should end up here.
2021-06-08 15:10:59        @jo        this rooms matrix id is !fBmBGtfevIFUoAdTek:libera.chat and #hackerspaces:libera.chat and #chat:hackspaces.org are just aliases. if we use an alias on our domain as primary alias, changing to another network is easier, if we use the libera one as alias, everyone knows it's this irc channel on this irc network...
2021-06-08 15:11:22        @jo        so idk which one is better
2021-06-08 15:11:51        cel        ok
2021-06-08 15:11:52        cos[m]        they are just names, it's not important
2021-06-08 15:15:05        cel        could this be linked to also? https://web.libera.chat/#hackerspaces
2021-06-08 15:15:32        cos[m]        in near future (firefox 90->) browsers will support matrix:// urls so no need for matrix.to domain anymore. 
2021-06-08 15:15:33        +bronsen        I think it should
2021-06-08 15:15:57        cel        like this? #hackerspaces [IRC]/Matrix] channel on Libera.Chat''')
2021-06-08 15:18:50        cel        pasted into https://pad.pad.land/p/hso-20210608 to try to improve
2021-06-08 15:20:26        +bronsen        do we have a way of marking resolutions?
2021-06-08 15:20:41        +bronsen        I have missed the last couple of meetings
2021-06-08 15:21:36        cel        good question
2021-06-08 15:23:09        jomat        i don't think so
2021-06-08 15:26:40        cel        the wiki trivia/anti-spam questions slow down wiki editing and previewing
2021-06-08 15:26:56        cel        but good for learning new things
2021-06-08 15:29:18        +webmind        hilight?
2021-06-08 15:29:53        +webmind        ah the meeting was today
2021-06-08 15:30:04        +bronsen        it is almost over imho
2021-06-08 15:30:13        cel        webmind: the wiki pointed to #hackerspace in freenode. should anything be done about that?
2021-06-08 15:30:34        +webmind        what was decided?
2021-06-08 15:30:50        +webmind        cel: I would certainly not point it there
2021-06-08 15:30:57        cel        agenda suggested "leave behind pointers", "we should consider archiving the old channel"
2021-06-08 15:30:57        +bronsen        we only need to fill the minutes; how do we mark resolutions?
2021-06-08 15:31:55        brimstone        i'm not sure the best way to close the freenode channel, actually
2021-06-08 15:32:46        +webmind        make it +m with a topic of 'here we meditate in silence, we talk elsewhere' ?
2021-06-08 15:32:59        +webmind        and wait for it to die out?
2021-06-08 15:33:11        +webmind        maybe +i
2021-06-08 15:33:13        brimstone        there's +z to allow the ops to see the unvoiced as well
2021-06-08 15:33:22        brimstone        there's a onjoin message chanserv can send
2021-06-08 15:33:28        +bronsen        I have seen something about making it invite-only, then "/msg chanserv clear #channel see you on the other side" and later dropping it
2021-06-08 15:33:51        +webmind        yeah, freenode has been hijacking those I think
2021-06-08 15:34:26        +webmind        put plan is to have this place and bridged on matrix?
2021-06-08 15:34:52        +bronsen        it is the plan and it already operational: the channel is bridged
2021-06-08 15:35:41        brimstone        how about marking the freenode channel as +z, setting the topic to just "Moved. See: https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Communication#IRC" and waiting it out?
2021-06-08 15:35:51        +webmind        cel: you from sudoroom?
2021-06-08 15:35:52        --        sknebel is now known as sgreger
2021-06-08 15:36:01        --        sgreger is now known as sknebel
2021-06-08 15:36:04        cel        webmind: yes (remote)
2021-06-08 15:36:05        +webmind        brimstone: as expected then :)
2021-06-08 15:36:14        +webmind        cel: cool, greetings from amsterdam
2021-06-08 15:36:28        cel        greetings!
2021-06-08 15:36:30        cel        https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings&oldid=89351 - the best i could do at this point
2021-06-08 15:36:44        +webmind        I quite liked sudo room when I visited
2021-06-08 15:36:58        cel        webmind: are you okay with chat here going in the public pad linked from the wiki?
2021-06-08 15:37:45        +bronsen        bloody hell! I can't edit the minutes, some of my browser extensions are interfering
2021-06-08 15:38:22        +webmind        cel: for sure
2021-06-08 15:38:29        cel        cool. i'm preparing to copy the irc log into the pad, and then i have to go
2021-06-08 15:38:32        +bronsen        ah found it
2021-06-08 15:40:08        +webmind        shall I close the freenode one then?
2021-06-08 15:43:06        +bronsen        I have added a few resolutions at the bottom https://pad.pad.land/p/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 15:44:31        +webmind        I have a question, stuff should be considered 'public' does that mean people are also free to publish stuff from here?
2021-06-08 15:44:53        +webmind        'cos I hope not :)
2021-06-08 15:46:12        +bronsen        perhaps "not confidential at all" is a better term
2021-06-08 15:46:17        +webmind        cool
2021-06-08 15:46:56        +webmind        I like 'post like everyone is watching', 'share like everyone has something to hide' 
2021-06-08 15:47:22        +bronsen        that is a good uhm thing saying
2021-06-08 15:54:00        cel        if publishing chat logs for meetings is expected, people participating in meetings should be aware of that
2021-06-08 15:54:20        cel        is there a suggested way to remove ip/domain from log?
2021-06-08 15:54:46        cel        or should those be kept?
2021-06-08 15:56:12        cel         
2021-06-08 15:56:13        +bronsen        I'd remove all join/part messages as that would remove all ips and host names here
2021-06-08 15:56:33        jomat        i don't care… what's nice on darkfasel is, that the host is replaced by the client cert fingerprint, so you know who's talking ^^
2021-06-08 15:57:38        cel        ok
2021-06-08 16:01:02        cel        anyone who didn't speak want it to be known they were in the meeting?
2021-06-08 16:03:07        jomat        btw: what cel is doing is a bit what https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot could do… should we reactivate ours?
2021-06-08 16:04:17        cel        that could be good
2021-06-08 16:06:35        +bronsen        ooh that looks cool
2021-06-08 16:07:30        cel        ending the meeting. chat logs for the three channels are in the pad. anyone want to say anything else for the record?
2021-06-08 16:07:52        +bronsen        thank you for moderating cel
2021-06-08 16:08:14        cel        thanks bronsen
2021-06-08 16:16:14        cel        thanks everyone for attending and participating
2021-06-08 16:16:15        jomat        just noticed: freenode is still mentioned on communications, but as not recommended. should we remove it or should we move it further down with something like "we're not on freenode anymore"? I'd remove it completely...
2021-06-08 16:16:40        brimstone        i'm in favor of removing the string "freenode" completely
2021-06-08 16:19:30        cel        remove completely makes sense i think
2021-06-08 16:21:24        +bronsen        remove it
2021-06-08 16:23:52        cel     there are other things needing updating as well, like the IRC page
2021-06-08 16:25:34        cel     chat logs for this meeting are in the pad https://pad.pad.land/p/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 16:26:07        cel     would it be good to email the mailing list about this meeting that took place? and announcing the next one?
2021-06-08 16:26:35        +bronsen        I think it is good to do so
2021-06-08 16:27:24        brimstone       i like that idea too
2021-06-08 16:29:06        cel     ok. i'll do it, unless someone else wants to
2021-06-08 16:29:24        cel     feels like meeting still in progress. i'll keep copying chat logs until done
2021-06-08 16:29:39        cel     please edit if you want to redact something you said
2021-06-08 16:31:06        cel     should send to announce or discuss?
2021-06-08 16:34:55        cel        does anyone else want to send it?
2021-06-08 16:39:16        brimstone        cel: i think you're the one to send it
2021-06-08 16:39:32        cel        ok
2021-06-08 16:44:17        cel        next meeting is 2021-07-08 18:00 UTC?
2021-06-08 16:45:22        crabbedhaloablut        The front page at hackerspaces.org still gives Freenode pride of place
2021-06-08 16:47:21        cel        who can change it?
2021-06-08 16:50:05        brimstone        can jomat? do they have access to the webserver?
2021-06-08 16:50:21        +webmind        freenode channel is locked
2021-06-08 16:52:59        cel        thanks webmind 
2021-06-08 16:57:17        cel        is hackspaces.org the same as hackerspaces.org, or is one preferred?
2021-06-08 16:59:22        waterppk1        if you try joining #reprap on Freenode they set up a bot the DM's you instructions, I don't think it's worth doing something like that but if someone wants to
2021-06-08 16:59:36        waterppk1        gets around the channel getting taken over for mentioning Libera
2021-06-08 17:00:45        psy        its not mentioning libera
2021-06-08 17:01:10        waterppk1        oh I know, I was just pointing out another community approach
2021-06-08 17:01:12        psy        topic was (when i left) "Here we mourn in silence... elsewhere we talk. For more information see: https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Communication#IRC   "
2021-06-08 17:01:56        psy        and there was a git(hub?) repo collecting all the channels that moved, maybe we should add #hackerspaces there. let me see if i find it again.
2021-06-08 17:02:18        ms7821        https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus/
2021-06-08 17:02:52        psy        thats it, thx!
2021-06-08 17:05:22        cel        great
2021-06-08 17:06:40        psy     https://github.com/siraben/freenode-exodus/pull/88
2021-06-08 17:10:21        cel     i'm listing meeting attendees in the notes
2021-06-08 17:11:15        cel     crabbedhaloablut, ms7821, psy: are you okay with your chats here in these notes? https://pad.pad.land/p/hso-20210608
2021-06-08 17:11:24        crabbedhaloablut        yes
2021-06-08 17:12:15        cel     cool. i'm marking everyone who chatted as attended, joining a few who are the same person
2021-06-08 17:13:14        ms7821  sure
2021-06-08 17:16:39        psy     cel: i'm fine
2021-06-08 17:17:01        cel     thanks. i think this is everyone: cel, jomat, brimstone, waterppk1, bronsen, cos, Lomanic, webmind, crabbedhaloablut, ms7821, psy
2021-06-08 17:17:53        +wmd        Thanks and good night
2021-06-08 17:18:06        cel        take care wmd
2021-06-08 17:21:04        +bronsen        so I want to edit https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/IRC_Channel but I can't save my changes because the spam filter is triggered by the text "bit.ly/motioncal". However that text does not appear in the textarea thingie
2021-06-08 17:21:56        cel        bronsen: it's in section "Hackerspace IRC Channels"
2021-06-08 17:23:39        cel        maybe you can edit the other section to remove it first, or edit the whole page?
2021-06-08 17:24:01        +bronsen        this is what I am trying to save: https://gist.github.com/bronsen/1a167e8d15cf07566792ad6522d70479
2021-06-08 17:26:01        cel        trying it...
2021-06-08 17:26:43        +bronsen        the list is generated by the macro, it is not submitted by me
2021-06-08 17:27:24        cel        oh
2021-06-08 17:28:35        +bronsen        I am not sure what motionlab.berlin is, looks very commercial
2021-06-08 17:30:11        +bronsen        the claim to be a makerspace though
2021-06-08 17:30:50        +bronsen        so let's accept that, and wonder instead how they managed to submit a bit.ly link :)
2021-06-08 17:31:04        cel        maybe the filter was added after they added it
2021-06-08 17:31:27        cel        if we can't override the filter, i think it would make sense to edit their page to remove or change the link
2021-06-08 17:32:23        cel        it's listed for irc= and ical=. it redirects to a google calendar
2021-06-08 17:32:46         *        bronsen shudders
2021-06-08 17:33:19        cel        i'm looking for their website if it links to irc and/or calendar in another way
2021-06-08 17:33:21        cel        there is https://motionlab.berlin/de/events/
2021-06-08 17:34:25        +bronsen        I mean a google calendar is not IRC
2021-06-08 17:34:40        cel        right
2021-06-08 17:34:50        cel        https://lite.duckduckgo.com/lite/?kp=-1&kd=-1&q=site%3Amotionlab.berlin+irc -> one result: space api https://spaceapi.motionlab.berlin/ 
2021-06-08 17:35:01        cel        has irc: "https://bit.ly/motionslack"
2021-06-08 17:35:07        +bronsen        I'll just remove that one item and see if I then can update the IRC_Channel page
2021-06-08 17:35:26        cel        cool
2021-06-08 17:35:37        cel        the motionslack link goes to slack but slack is not irc
2021-06-08 17:36:45        cel        their spaceapi has an ical link "https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/motionlab.berlin_7dlplu25sjfe66jk57fjn4a7js%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics"
2021-06-08 17:38:04        +bronsen        good that seems to have worked
2021-06-08 17:39:58        cel        great!
2021-06-08 17:40:56        Lomanic[m]        Thanks to all involved, I just read the minutes (was afk), thanks for the write up 🙏
2021-06-08 17:41:27        cel        sure thing
2021-06-08 17:41:31        cel        email will send shortly. Message-ID: <20210608172051.25c00116.cel@celehner.com>
2021-06-08 17:41:38        cel        good day everyone!
testando

Email sent:
    https://lists.hackerspaces.org/pipermail/discuss/2021-June/012039.html




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